I’m joined again by Juliette and Dominic, two individuals journeying through the tactile world of Martial Attitude’s adaptive Kung Fu Wing Chun training. Together, we’re breaking down traditional martial arts movements into something powerful yet personal, designed to enhance spatial confidence—especially for visually impaired and blind individuals. We start with a fundamental question—what does touch mean? For Juliette and Dominic, touch goes beyond mere contact; it’s a language, a way to express gratitude, awareness, and cooperation. Throughout this training, touch has become the key to navigating the space around them, transforming physical interactions into a means of communication. As we dive deeper, you’ll hear us discuss how this approach to training differs from conventional martial arts, where repetition and precision often overshadow interaction. Instead, our goal here is to sustain a connection—a continuous ‘conversation’ of movement and response that builds trust and understanding. Join us as we explore how we’re creating a learning system that empowers each participant not just to learn a movement but to connect through it, growing together as a community.
I’m joined again by Juliette and Dominic, two individuals journeying through the tactile world of Martial Attitude’s adaptive Kung Fu Wing Chun training. Together, we’re breaking down traditional martial arts movements into something powerful yet personal, designed to enhance spatial confidence—especially for visually impaired and blind individuals.
We start with a fundamental question—what does touch mean? For Juliette and Dominic, touch goes beyond mere contact; it’s a language, a way to express gratitude, awareness, and cooperation. Throughout this training, touch has become the key to navigating the space around them, transforming physical interactions into a means of communication.
As we dive deeper, you’ll hear us discuss how this approach to training differs from conventional martial arts, where repetition and precision often overshadow interaction. Instead, our goal here is to sustain a connection—a continuous ‘conversation’ of movement and response that builds trust and understanding. Join us as we explore how we’re creating a learning system that empowers each participant not just to learn a movement but to connect through it, growing together as a community.
Mathias Alberton (00:01.026)
Hello everyone, this is Mathias Alberton. I'm the creator of Martial Attitude. This is Martial Attitude Voice, as we know. This is a podcast about discipline, how different sports disciplines can teach us something on how to live better our daily lives. And you know that as a trainee sports psychologist, after a master in applied sports psychologist, working and researching about vision impairment, confidence, touch... and participation in physical activities. I have developed a training program called the Martial Attitude Training, which I deliver every week on Sunday in central London with a group of vision impaired and blind people and whoever wants to participate. if you're vision impaired or blind or you know someone who is and wish to keep in touch, please do so. I would be more than happy to meet you and to train with you.
And for my research project for the Masters, I actually pulled out a series of interviews with visually impaired and blind people, and I'm going to publish them in the following weeks. We are now around the end of October 2024. And I wanted to keep going, so to have more conversations about this topic with other people. And as it happened, I started the martial arts tutor training program at the beginning of September 2024. And I have worked so far for several weeks with incredible people. Two of them are with us with me today on the podcast. And I can welcome Juliet and Dominic.
Juliette and Dominic (01:52.175)
Hello.
Mathias Alberton (43:20.958)
At the cost of being a bit self-serving, I'm going to ask you a couple of things about, let's say, what we're doing together. Otherwise, I'm really curious to see what is the perception. You know, I think something, I try to do something, and then the people that I'm working with... they think something that might be very different than what I think. So I would introduce this with a question which is a bit broad, but I'll try anyway. To you, Juliette, what is touch?
Juliette and Dominic (44:24.646)
I guess I mean there's what it is which is just someone to any contact between two people but then it's also I suppose what it means outside of like in a romantic way I don't know I'm I'm I quite like physical contact I don't know how to say that's not a bit of a weird way to say it but I like I have some colleagues that are quite tactile and I I don't know I like it it's nice I think it's quite a it's like an easy way to convey stuff so I guess like if someone is helping me or guiding me somewhere I've started if I'm holding someone's arm I will like before I let go of their arm or I will like squeeze their arm just be like thanks like or I'll kind of pat them on the like I've started recently doing that a bit to try and convey like, really appreciate that. So I think it's yeah, I guess it's a way of a quick way of conveying gratitude. It's a way to help people. It's yeah, I don't know.
Mathias Alberton (45:31.278)
Because of course we make a difference between touching the table, say, and touching each other again in a social way. Call it a distribution.
Juliette and Dominic (45:35.107)
Mmm.
Juliette and Dominic (45:42.519)
Yeah, and I think you can learn more from touch than sighted people think. Like as in if we're not thinking of like contact between two people, we're thinking about me just touching something, I think what I have learned is that it sometimes is very very hard for sighted people to even comprehend taking things in a non-visual way.So like if someone does something I'll be like, yeah, that's like that. Or I, yeah, I know that just happened and they won't, they will not be able to understand how it is I could have got that information. It's like, yeah, I just, I know what it feels like. know what it's It's a way of learning stuff and you can learn more than you think you can.
Mathias Alberton (46:25.374)
And what do you think... I mean, how would you describe to someone else what we have been doing for the past few weeks on a Sunday afternoon for one hour and a half? What is this martial attitude training that I'm trying to pull here?
Juliette and Dominic (46:47.983)
Well, I've been saying obviously that yeah, we've been doing kung fu but I have talked a bit about people at work have been asking me and talking about the idea of being in contact with someone and then having that more of an awareness of what they're doing if you're in contact with them and I guess having a bit of an idea of your of the space around you like yours sort of in your personal space I suppose but yeah I'm not really sure.
Mathias Alberton (47:20.042)
And for Dominic, if I ask, what have you been doing so far?
Juliette and Dominic (47:28.845)
Yeah, it's an interesting one. Yeah, I think it's using the information you get from touch to understand and ideally have a greater level of control over the space around you.
Mathias Alberton (47:49.204)
And just this is for the audience really, because let's say, let's put it this straight. I am talking with two people. have been working on this thing for a few weeks. So let's say that there is an understanding between them and us. But for the people who are listening, makes no sense whatsoever. The thing that I'm trying to do, Matthias Albertan, with martial attitude training with visually impaired and blind people, is to break down some of the movements and techniques of Kung Fu Wenchun and to explain them so that they can be taken by blind people who don't know what the movement looks like and use this choreographed movement in order to know where they are in respect to another person. In fact, the thing happens between two people because two people are continuously exchanging pressure with arms, forearms, hands. And in a controlled way, you keep learning how to apply pressure and to respond to pressure which is applied to you. This is a bit how I would explain it. Would you explain it differently?
Juliette and Dominic (49:17.145)
No, I think that's actually quite a good way to explain it.
Mathias Alberton (49:20.854)
And did you enjoy the process so far?
Juliette and Dominic (49:23.683)
Yeah, yeah, lot actually.
Mathias Alberton (49:26.689)
Why or in which way?
Juliette and Dominic (49:42.095)
All good? Yeah. Cool. so I think I like to try things I haven't tried before and I've never done anything like Kung Fu before so I was, I was already kind of interested to see what it would be like. But I am quite interested in how I pay attention to personal space and people around me and like how much of it is subconscious and how much of it is conscious. So doing the sessions with you.
I'm really tuned in all the time to what's going on. it was, yeah, it's really interesting to think about that content, contact and like what I get from it and actually really like deliberately paying attention to it and seeing if I can like get a bit better at telling how someone's going to move or where they're going to move and see how it affects my perception of like spatial awareness, I suppose.
Mathias Alberton (50:38.208)
Is it fatiguing this deliberate paying attention?
Juliette and Dominic (50:43.484)
Not in the sessions, it makes my arms tired, but doesn't make my brain too tired.
Mathias Alberton (50:48.096)
And for you Dominic, how does it feel like or how do you like it?
Juliette and Dominic (50:53.847)
Yeah, you certainly have to concentrate, but then I think that's part of what makes it interesting. So I've done karate in the past and it's a lot of just sort of learning specific movements, which obviously we've been doing as well, but in karate it's much more just sort of you learn the movement and you do the movement over and over again. And there's some tweaks to apply it to particular situations, but it is much more focused on that. This has been a lot more about how to apply that in response to changes in what you can feel through touch. I've found that more interesting as just sort of seeing how things interplay and how to respond to something rather than just here's a movement, learn a movement, do a movement 10 times in a row. Even though we're still doing that, there's a sort of, it's paying much more attention to what the other person is doing and how that affects you, which I find quite interesting.
Mathias Alberton (52:04.6)
Yeah, this idea that what you just said, I find it very interesting, this idea that you are paying attention to what the other person is doing is quite interesting. You were mentioning Karate before and of course I'm not saying anything against Karate per se. I'm just saying that... Karate is quite self-explanatory. Karate has, let's say, the inception of the idea is to reach for something which is outside of you. And Karate teaches you to do it in the most efficient way, in the most brief possible way. And instead this thing that we are trying to do together is really sticky, is really ongoing, is not... it doesn't have the sensation of being one-off, one movement off and the situation has been sorted. No, we want to stay in the situation, we want to keep the situation alive. So the idea is there is not something to be sorted out is something to keep going. And in order to keep going, you need to be a good listener as for a real conversation. normally, you have the idea that you are satisfied when you have had a conversation with someone if this someone gave you the possibility to say something. So, if you have been listened to carefully. Then you are much more satisfied about the conversation you just had. Baradaxvi, would you agree on this?
Juliette and Dominic (54:09.199)
Yeah.
Mathias Alberton (54:10.336)
So, these techniques that we are trying to use are very much a conversation. Now, I have another question about what I do, or what we did together, or what we are doing together, which is about me as a person, as a trainer, if you wish. How do you like what I do? You know, the training, how I do it, how my deliverance, let's say my deliverance of the thing. How do you like it? Is there something that I can do different or better or any comment at all?
Juliette and Dominic (54:57.741)
No, I think it's quite good. think, no, I mean, I feel like I pick it up okay. And I feel like you explain stuff well. And obviously for me, you have to demo it. Like you have to move me in the space. And I find that really helpful to then know that I'm then when I do the movements by myself, I'm doing them correctly. So no, I find it, I find it good. Yeah, I find it good. I find it quite interesting, obviously, the experience of Cameron popping along to our last session of just this slightly different ways in which you both did it, which is that you tend to show us the movements and then sort of once we've done that for a while and got it closer to being what you want, explaining why it is we're doing it and what sort of situation it might be used in, whereas when he did it, it was slightly the other way around. It would sort of explain why it was you were doing it and then do it several times. yeah, but not with a huge difference in terms of I enjoy both. didn't really have a, think one is better than the other, particularly I just, that was the one thing I'd observed having seen both of you do it. No, I've really enjoyed doing it regardless.
Mathias Alberton (56:35.252)
And you mentioned Cameron. Cameron is for who is listening to this podcast. Now, he is the other director of Martial Attitude CIC. He helped a great deal with the funding application and is a director for operations to manage the finance of Martial Attitude in order to deliver as many workshops as we possibly can in the future as well. And Kamara and I, both in different ways, in different timings, we have trained the same art from different strengths, let's say. So let's say we speak the language with different accents, if you wish. So we give meaning to different movements.
Juliette and Dominic (57:26.455)
Mm.
Mathias Alberton (57:33.088)
in a bit different ways although you know subject verb object are still remaining what they are but you know the syntax is a bit different so I there is also this aspect for me which is of course complicated to pull out which is
Juliette and Dominic (57:48.377)
Yeah.
Mathias Alberton (58:02.184)
If I have a room full with vision impaired and blind people, I cannot go anywhere. Because I'm not enough in order to show what I want each person to be doing one by one. It is impossible. So I cannot run a 20 people class. It's not possible. Unless let's say at least 10 of these people are fairly good at what I am trying to do. So, which means that if I do have couples of people, one of them is blind, one of them is fully sighted, and they form, let's say, a couple, which might be friends, might be... father and son or siblings or partners in life as today Juliet and Dominic are, then I do have the possibility to train a blind person and through with a fully sighted person. The process of learning is different for both of them, but both of them are acquiring something and then they complement each other. So tomorrow, in an hypothetical tomorrow, in two, three, four, five, six months, I could possibly implement the training system for more and more people who are in need of the training system because I developed, let's say, a bedrock of people who can actually be extremely helpful in delivering the system with me to newcomers. And this is something that I really tried to work hard towards, meaning that one of my observations, and I want here, Juliet, to have a saying, was that I came across, of course, the Royal National Institute for the Blind, Metro Blind Sport, Thomas Pocklington Trust. These are major institutions I've been in contact with, with Cameron as well, over the past couple of years to try to get communication done or to have feedbacks and so forth. But, you know, there are sports activities out there for blind people, but they are specific for blind people. Let's say cricket, tennis, football for blind people, which means it is a version of the sport.
Juliette and Dominic (01:00:28.985)
Hmm.
Mathias Alberton (01:00:58.292)
adapted to visual impairment, played by vision impaired people, let's say only, in specific settings with sometimes specific rules. Therefore, either draw a binary option. You are good for the game and you are in the situation, in the location, at the time with the people who are actually playing that game with you.
Juliette and Dominic (01:01:06.382)
Hmm.
Juliette and Dominic (01:01:13.155)
Mm-hmm.
Mathias Alberton (01:01:28.466)
or you cannot play the game either yes or either no there is no midway like guys i mean yeah we miss three people but who cares we we just call someone from across the street and we do the same it's not gonna happen. Instead, what I'm trying to do is to create something that is equally engaging for everyone, regardless of the level of impairment, from a range between zero impairment to complete visual impairment. so I want to really create something that is working for everyone from the start. Even if it is a bit of a nightmare for me to have two speeds, two languages, two ways of describing things as I go through, let's say, a workshop. Do you have something to say about this, Juliette?
Juliette and Dominic (01:02:37.657)
Mm-hmm.
Juliette and Dominic (01:02:46.087)
yeah, it's interesting. So I've tried tennis, VR tennis, and I think you're right. And there is something nice about being able to do a sport or an activity that is like doing it mainstream because then, yeah, you don't feel separated out. I think it's interesting in our sessions, I think only myself or one other person are completely blind. So there's people with other vision levels which makes it easier. But yeah, think the more people have skills, the more easy it is to then have inclusive sessions. I wondered if like what you thought if any like a visually impaired person could learn to like train other people or other VI people. Because I think that would be interesting.
Mathias Alberton (01:03:42.238)
I totally do. I really totally do. It is one thing that is very well, is very clear in my mind. It's really something that I want to achieve. I really want to have few people with me like yourself, if you really want to go for this, that are really enabling others to join in. It's really something that from the very beginning, years ago, before martial attitude, the CIC was even funded, I already had this, let's say vision, it in this way. So, and we were talking with Cameron, not a long time ago, about a month ago, maybe less about what's next and provided that we are relying on funding at this stage, very much so and very possibly in the future it will be for a while to run operation, to rent the space, to organize things for having, you know, people moving, organizing, working. But honestly, yes, you can multiply the workshop in different locations to make them more accessible. But the thing is that I'm always to one against someone else. The thing that I have to break down the sooner the better is to become Legion. So I really need you to be more, to be more than just me. So it is possible to do things, yes, in different location at different times. For instance, now I'm running two workshops every Sunday, 2 p.m., 3.30 p.m. Great. You know, I could do three times as many if I did have enough funding and to go, you know, South London, West London, you know, just to cover more territory and make it easier for people to reach, that's fair. But then again, at the beginning, in the second location, in the third location, in the fourth location, at the fifth time in the week schedule, I would only be just me. Instead, what if we manage to have the two sessions we have, but with 20 people each one, which make 40 people and there is a lot of things going on, a lot of exchange, and I can't handle these numbers because I have, you know, two, three, four key people who are really literally helping out to make it possible. So, yeah, I agree with you. It's going to be interesting, but yeah, I totally agree.
Juliette and Dominic (01:06:58.799)
Hmm.
Mathias Alberton (01:07:10.879)
This is one thing that has to be done. Has to be done. Is there anything that you would like to do more?
Juliette and Dominic (01:07:24.611)
I want to have a proper crack at learning the form. But I think the way, yeah, I think because we've run through it a bit, but I almost like need to learn it in sections and like learning a dance is going through the same bits over and over. Because I think it's a little bit harder to learn when you can't just look at it and do it. So, yeah, maybe more focus on learning the form, like breaking it down a bit more and repeating it a bit more, I suppose. Or if there was like, almost like, you want like accessible description of it to like take home and practice at home.
Mathias Alberton (01:08:14.574)
Okay, so I try to refrain something that you have just said for the audience. So Juliet has just mentioned the form. I would like to know more the form. So what we're doing is based on a Chinese martial arts called the Kung Fu Wing Chun. This Kung Fu Wing Chun thing is rooted upon four, number four forms. Three are free body movements one is what is famously known as the wooden dummy so there is an object in front of you and you move around this object which is made in wood that's why wooden dummy now let's forget about the wooden dummy but the first two forms are as Juliet has just mentioned a choreographed set of movements by which the person learn, practice certain way of stretching or hitting or protecting or moving the legs or the arms or the forearms over and over again. So the form, the first form, which is the root of everything, is fairly long. It takes, let's say, two minutes and a half, three minutes to be done. But in order to be learned, you can't really learn it as a whole. Personally, with all my sight, when I learned it back in the days, it took me a month. And you copy, you go there to lesson with your instructor, you do it over and over and over and again, you copy more, you copy more, you understand a bit more, you mistake a bit there. Now you have a bit of correction here, a bit of correction there, and then you patch together pieces and everything starts to make a bit sense.
Now, with you guys, maybe Dominika can say something here, because of course he has been at the sessions and he knows a bit the form, has a look, because I have done it in front of him a couple of times, for sure, even more. Juliet instead had never seen it. So what I did have to do is to take Juliet apart and to break down explaining, verbalizing each set of movement in the best possible way for her to translate those words in actual movements and then to try through touch to correct those movements if they were not too close to the real thing. And then you build up a series of instructions and all together they become the form. I have experienced this with my lovely friend Peter, who unfortunately passed away last year. We trained together something like 100 times and when I was trying out the idea of martial attitude training and he was doing the form at the end very nicely. We didn't start doing the form from the beginning, but close enough, but I would say that even if he did have 10 % vision on only one eye, he did have some level of vision and it took quite a long time to go through it. So, Juliet, we can do it, but it will take time. So let's say that the two minutes and a half of the form, you know, there is one thing, let's say three minutes, actually it is one minute and a half, why? Because half of it is mirroring. So you do something on the left and then you do it on the right. So actually you just learn to do one thing on the right or on the left and then you duplicate it. So, you know, three minutes comes down to one minute and a half. Then if you do it a bit faster instead of a bit slower, it is a minute. Because certain movements they go very slowly because the slower they go, the harder they are to be carried out. And traditionally, what is hard is better. It's like Tai Chi, if you ever had an experience of Tai Chi, the movements are extremely long, extremely slow. And that is because they are organized with breathing. So the more you can control your breathing, the more the slower you can go. So the more fit you are, the slower you can get. In this case, without the breathing, but roughly the idea is the same. So if you have very strong on your legs, then you can keep the position for longer time, obviously. If you can't, then the heart is pumping and you need to accelerate just to get over with it because you can't wait the end of it.
Juliette and Dominic (01:14:27.343)
Hmm.
Mathias Alberton (01:14:28.024)
So let's say that we have to go through one minute of things. But one minute of things are... it's long. So I don't know. We can... I'm very happy, you know that. I'm very happy. Let's try to figure out a way we meet more often and we go through the form. Very happy. Dominic, of course, is always super welcome. Dominic, how do you feel the... I I believe there is a two-speed... not commitment, but engagement with the training. So there is something that might be interesting for you, and there is something that is interesting because you do it with Juliette. I assume. Is this the case or?
Juliette and Dominic (01:15:28.759)
I hope so. Yeah, yeah, it's nice to, as you were saying about making something that's something that blind people and sighted people can both do and find interesting. Yeah, it's nice to have a physical activity we do together. Yeah, it was nice because we've done, we go running sometimes, but I get really bored when we go running.
Mathias Alberton (01:15:56.032)
Why? Why is it boring?
Juliette and Dominic (01:15:59.055)
it's very repetitive and I don't know why other people run but I feel like at least some of it is as least you can like have nice surroundings that you can look at and for me it's just really boring. And when we first started running when I lost my sight we were doing with the tether so Dom was guide running me and I had to do a lot of like every time I would go to start running there was like a voice in my head that was like no you can't you're gonna die if you try running you're just gonna run into something and die so I had to also try and ignore that voice which it's I can do that but it's it's like it's enough concentration, but for me it's not the kind of concentration that I like. It's just having to concentrate on doing the same thing over and over again. But like exactly the same thing, whereas like with Kung Fu or like when I used to dance, you're moving your body in a lot of different ways. And you kind of got to keep on your toes a bit. I don't know, it's a lot more engaging. Like you want to do the movements as correctly as possible but then you're also paying attention to what the person you're working with is doing as well and then you want to like respond to that like it it's like fully engaging my brain and my body but it's not repetitive and also there's not a voice in my head that is telling me i'm going to run into something.
Mathias Alberton (01:17:37.314)
That is interesting, this thing that you said about, I'm going to run into something. If that was true, then as a sports psychologist, I would tend to think that, as you said, I can deal with it with enough practice. But then if you deal with this with enough practice, it means that you come to terms to rely completely on the person you are federed with. Is that right?
Juliette and Dominic (01:18:10.639)
Hmm. Yeah, which is fine, but I think, I think we're in thinking about exercise and what kind of exercise I like. I think it's just a bit repetitive, but it's like a little bit too much effort. so like if we were going to do exercise like that, I would probably rather just go to the gym and like do like some exercise bike or something like is a little bit less effort when you're doing it, whereas when you're running, and I think it's a little bit more effort for you, Dom, because although I think I'm okay to guide run with, but you're still aware of how much space are we taking up? What is the pathway? Are we gonna turn? When are we gonna do? It's just a little bit more effort. And for me, I don't feel like I get as much reward as when I do something like when we do kung fu or like sometimes I'll do like YouTube yoga videos and I find that quite, I find that quite satisfying. And it's, if I'm exercising, I'd rather be really engaged in the activity than worrying about accessing the surroundings. I think like when I did tennis, I've only done one session, I haven't been back yet, but the session that I did I was told a lot of people when they start VI Tennis they get really nervous about running around in the space, like sometimes they won't hit the ball in their first session because they're too scared to like run over to it and try and find it. And I was finding that I just didn't mind just running towards the sound because I knew the space was set up to be accessible and the only thing I was likely to run into was a bit of net. So I was like, well, why am I here otherwise? might as well just go for it. And so I would just run towards whatever sound I heard because it's actually quite liberating. But I think maybe with running, it's just you're in a surrounding outside with other people who might not really know why you're running along attached to someone else. And it's like, you don't quite know what's going to happen. And it's like, I don't know, I feel like I only have a finite amount of energy I'm willing to spend on that and it's not necessarily how I want to waste my energy when I exercise.
Mathias Alberton (01:20:42.542)
You mentioned before you would like to do more of the form and you mentioned as well that if I understood correctly you would like to have some sort of material prompt support something like that in order to train more when you are on your own did I understand correctly?
Juliette and Dominic (01:21:07.181)
Yeah, like, well, because even if like there's like a video of it somewhere that because because Dom's doing it with me, he could like watch it or I guess show some of what you've picked up because you've Dom, you've probably picked up more of the form than I have so that he can then show me it because then I can repeat it in a smaller segments as I need to at home. And then I think I would progress more with learning it because I think when we're in the sessions, when we've done the format here, so you've sort of shown me, you break it down and explain why we do the, like what I'm supposed to be stretching and why, and actually I really, I would still want to focus on that because I find that really, really interesting. And I think then when I do learn more of the form and practice it, I'll be doing it, I'm more likely to be doing it correctly and understanding why, like I want to learn the why as much as the how, but I think. Definitely, that's one of the things I want to be able to practice at home a bit more. But obviously for me, I can't just go and watch a video and replicate it. So it's how do I get materials that I can learn? Or how best to practice it, whether it's with Dom's help or audio description or something. I don't know. But yeah, something like that maybe would be good.
Mathias Alberton (01:22:30.644)
It's really interesting this point. gosh, it's really the next level. for the audience, there are no videos of the thing that I do for two reasons. The family who I learned from the art doesn't want videos to be out there. So there is a form of respect to the family not to share what is done within the art form, which is felt by Chinese tradition as a family craft. This is one part of the story. The other part of the story is that for whoever has ever joined me or someone else trying to do these kind of movements, they are so, let's say, invisible. They are so close, tactile, dependent, context dependent... that taller person, a shorter person, a slimmer person, a stronger person. An arm rotated 5, 10, 15 degrees less and more makes a lot of difference. And a video depends from what perspective, what angle has been taken. And therefore what you are watching is not what has been made, done, delivered. Less so even what you are understanding of it. So the understanding is completely unrelated to what you watch, what you watch is unrelated to what has been done. And that's a bit of a problem because when you are recording, video recording, a runner, a sprinter runner, the 100 meters, then you can watch it over and over and over again from a perspective which is perpendicular to the runner and you can break down the movement and try to understand if you're able to see of course if you can try to understand how the movement is delivered but in this case instead is really three-dimensionally applied and is really little because there are just arms and forearms. So as opposed to Judo or Karate, where there are of course two people, but you might have some sort of perpendicular perspective. Here instead the right perspective would be from the top bottom. So like an eye over you, overlooking you and look inside of what you are creating with your hands. And that is very difficult to pull out in video. Now, provided that we don't have that, what I instead understand and feel for you is that maybe together you and I could in time develop maybe an audio track that could be our support.
Juliette and Dominic (01:26:28.355)
Mm.
Mathias Alberton (01:26:29.73)
So if it is, let's say, an add-on to the physical training in person, then when people are on their own, they have the audio cues. So they can go through because they are cued for the movement. They remembered, yeah.
Juliette and Dominic (01:26:39.639)
Yeah.
Juliette and Dominic (01:26:52.333)
Yeah, just like a reminder of what's next, you already know how to do it, but just to jog your memory.
Mathias Alberton (01:26:57.132)
Yep. Yep. I think that could be something we could try. So I'm open. I'm open to it. I'm open to it. Of course, in your specific case, you have Dominic. And as you said, Dominic might have an active visual memory of the movement. But for more people who are visually impaired. I mean, it really depends how the things are structured. But I feel you. mean, yeah, why not? Let's try to do it. I would go first for showing you more of the form and then together to try to understand, OK, how do we call this movement? What's the best verbal cue for this movement to be delivered?
Juliette and Dominic (01:27:58.191)
Mmm.
Mathias Alberton (01:27:58.914)
Because what I think might not be what you feel right.
Juliette and Dominic (01:28:04.772)
Mm.
Mathias Alberton (01:28:06.306)
You know, is also my way of, let's say, training is so bespoke. I try to be as bespoke as possible to the person that I'm confronted with in the moment, which I tend to, I don't know. It's a test. It's a test for me as well to create something that might be used by more people at the same time, you know, it might work. don't know. Dominic, what do you think? As you have seen the thing, what do you think?
Juliette and Dominic (01:28:46.347)
Yeah, think probably audio rather than video would be more helpful. And if you're doing that, then you need to have an idea of what the movements are first. I think that's the best way to go about it.
Juliette and Dominic (01:29:10.543)
Yeah, think it's something even just as prompts, it wouldn't even need to be two verbose, it could just be prompts once you've kind of got a fair bit of it down just to help practice it I suppose. Yeah, sure, could be interesting though.
Mathias Alberton (01:29:29.56)
Okay guys, we do it. Listen, I am super grateful for this time that you have decided to spend with me. I'm really grateful. Thank you very much.
Juliette and Dominic (01:29:43.54)
Thanks for having us.
Mathias Alberton (01:29:45.57)
Yeah. And I wonder, do you have any questions for me at this moment?
Mathias Alberton (01:29:57.784)
So thank you again and of course thank you everyone who has listened to this podcast and I remind you that I am Mathias Alberton, this is Martial Attitude Voice podcast and I am creating this training program for visually impaired and blind people which is delivered on Sunday afternoon in central London. If you are visually impaired and blind and would like to train a bit your sense of touch exchange when in contact with other people, as usual, you keep in touch.